I have missed the last two meetings due to personal issues, and have tried in vain to keep in contact by phone and e-mail. I thought it was decided that we'd have some discussion online? Obviously I am mistaken. Will someone please fill me in? I have to say I am definitely feeling like an outsider. Not a very good community feel. Surely that is not intentional. Who's got the minutes from the last meeting?
Looking forward to hearing all the news...
Joan
Let's Talk About Lents » Lents Grocery Co-operative
So, where's the co-op discussion?
(27 posts)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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We had a brief meeting, decided on a working name of "Lents Grocery Co-operative" and asked the grants, research and outreach subcommittees to start contacting folks that expressed interest. We also decided to do monthly meetings on last thursdays (that way we can announce at the LNA meeting just a couple days before) and then the subcommittees have enough time to meet in-between and then report at the general meeting. Nick is working on the minutes.
I registered two web site names this weekend - lentsgrocery.com and lentsgrocery.org, I wanted to register lentsgrocery.coop but the cost of that is almost $200.00, so I decided to wait and go ahead with setting up the co-op site at one of the other names. I'm currently working on getting some really basic graphics together and downloading some software updates, and we should be in business.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I guess it is good that the grant committee made it to the meeting to make these decisions. From what I could tell most of the steering committee didn't make it. I guess you guys have it all covered. Maybe a steering committee isn't neccessary after all. Hmmm...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Actually, we had a range of representation... Let me see if I can remember who all was there-
Wendy, Nick, Dustin, Jeff, Katie and myself. We were hoping that both you and Adrienne would make it too. (drat you plague of 2009!!!). I think having a monthly meeting just after the LNA meeting will help alot with drumming up some attendance from other folks.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi guys im chiming in here just because i dont understand a few things. Has this co-op project become a representitive democracy where we dont need a vote among the larger membership if si then when was this decided. My second question is if in fact this is a representitive co-op then what is the deciding as far as Quorum for voting on anything, You have a steering comittee yes and a grant writing comittee in what co-op land does either of these groups have the power or ability to change the course of a meeting structure. I have been reading quite a few things about co-ops and have had some small experience with a meeting format between the LNA and Union (AFSCME) meetings from what i have seen this loooks kind of arbitrary.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Damien,
The co-op doesn't have "official" voting rules or quorums until the bylaws have been established...and we don't have an official "membership" at this point either, just folks that have expressed interest. I'm not sure what is going on, but we're just trying to do our best to advance the project along. There was consensus at the meeting about how to proceed. If we have to wait until there's a meeting with every single person who has ever expressed interest in the project, we'll never get anything done.
I'm also a little confused by the reaction too. Nothing permanent was decided at this meeting, we just talked about how to proceed and who wanted to help get folks communicating and get the steering committee and sub-committees going. We chose a working name, with the understanding that we could change it to the member selected name before we incorporate. Membership and working arrangements in the sub-committees is still open, and the steering committee is still looking for members.
I'm sorry that some people feel left out because they missed meetings. Everyone is welcome, and I don't feel we made any choices that exclude anyone.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I need to finish this as my post decided to post without me. I understand there are many different ideas among all the members and different levels of involvement for all involved. but while we all have the best interests of fairplay and want to see the co-op move into reality it cannot do so without the involveemnt of all people if the live meetings are a problem where we need to move them then if nothing ele a vote must be taken online so that we have a quorum and a true representation of the majority . remember guys the lions share of the people who are going to be represented here are moms who handle the food buying for the family and have kids and responsiblities that preclude alot of face time meetings so we need to adjust for this , considering this is the demographic we are shooting for .....it is the demographic we are shooting for right?the family whether it be a family of one two all the way out to who knows 8-9 kids , we have them in the neighborhood, wow good nutrition for the masses
Posted 1 year ago # -
I think the demographic we are shooting for is people who want to create and organization that reflects the seven co-operative principles and live in our area. That includes single people with no families, older adults, couples, families, working moms and dads, stay-at-home moms and dads, single parents, vegetarians, omnivores, and all sorts of diet considerations etc. etc.
All of these people have responsibilities and various time restrictions. We're working on a central online "meeting place" just for the co-op to help facilitate that.
Lord knows I am over-committed. I'm just trying to do my little piece -
Posted 1 year ago # -
hey no problem, I guess you all have it covered, and don't need me. I have enough to handle with the buying club anyway. (Oh, Cora, remember to pick up your stuff when the truck arrives.)
Hope you find the steering committee you are looking for because obviously it is not the people who volunteered, which is ironic as steering committees are totally voluntary. But, I guess you are the expert.
Good luck with your venture.Posted 1 year ago # -
Joan, this isn't my venture. I have accepted the responsibility of creating a web site and forum for the co-op and helping with PDC communication in an advisory capacity. I'm not even on the steering committee and I spent a lot of the last meeting encouraging others to move ahead with the various subcomittee projects we decided on at the 2/13 meeting. I'm only responding here because I was at the last meeting and you had questions.
I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but I will not accept your opinion of what I am doing. It is incorrect.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I guess being a list owner and moderator works well for you. I notice you took out the comment about not having "rules of operation". LOL.
Just so we are clear, I am not against the coop. I just don't want to take part in the discussion anymore. Cora has been nothing but condescending to me, and many others. Sorry Cora I guess I am not as easy to bully.
Good luck to everyone who is working on this. I hope it all works out for Lents.Posted 1 year ago # -
Joan, I have not made any modifications to any posts on this forum, at all. Whatever you are referring to, it is probably still in the original "how to use this forum" post. There is also an item in there about ad hominem attacks. I could be kind and delete your post that wrongly accuses me of being a bully, but I will leave it so that others can know what feelings are informing your decisions. Again, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I've never tried to coerce, manipulate or bully you or anyone else in any way. I've actually been trying to get others to take over this process from the begining, but it seems as though no one else is committed. So, perhaps we can not have a co-op.
I always assume that even though everyone may have different needs and opinions, we all have good intentions. I would hope you would extend the same courtesy to me and encourage others to do the same.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Regarding the minutes, it's been four days since the meeting. I responded to let Joan know what I remembered, and that Nick was working on the meeting notes. For the record, I facilitated the meeting and refrained from voting or making decisions. The folks that were at the meeting simply thought about the issues in the agenda, and very thoughtfully came up with non-permanent ways to move ahead. This was because they recognized that we are developing and do not have significant representation from the community to decide on one path just yet. The folks at the meeting thought we need a way to do outreach, and shore up communications... And that is what the web site is for.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Wow -- online forums are great for letting people share their thoughts about things they're passionate about. They also have a enormous capacity for setting up huge tonal misunderstandings. I think I'm having one right now.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Maybe we need to stop where we're at for a while and make sure that we're all on the same page about how we're going to go about making decisions. What is normal in my experience is that, well, in any organization that I've been a part of decisions are made by a vote at a meeting. Maybe that's not optimal- there are times that important people can't make a meeting where an important decision is being made. That's just the way it is in most organizations. If every important person in this effort was at the meeting, the room would have been packed! Is there a better way? If there is, we need to talk about it and develop a better protocol.
One mistake that I think that we've made, honestly, was the way the Co-op name poll was worded. It was a poll- not a vote. That should have been emphasized. If we're going to decide decisions online- exactly how that is going to work needs to be discussed. The name issue, by the way, was really the only decision that I remember being made at the meeting. Did the vote go my way? No, it didn't! I personally feel that there are still a lot of decisions coming that could have a bearing on what the best name for the co-op could be. All kinds of things could come to bear on that decision- including the location of the storefront. What if the vote was to name it "Foster Rd. Coop" or something like that and we ended up getting a storefront somewhere else?!! I thought it would be better to keep our working name "Civic Grocery" and only risk having to change the name once, rather than potentially have to change it twice. We voted, I lost. C'est la vie.
There are going to be lots of decisions to make along the road. We have to try to make the best decision we can- and we have to make them in a way that is fair and understood. If anyone wants to explore ways of making decisions outside the normal process of voting at meetings- we need to talk about it! And we have to do our reading!! I'm going to be out of school in a few weeks and I'll have a little more time to work on it. So homework:
Outside of voting at meetings, are there other ways that people would like to explore when it comes to decision making? Should we have a discussion period, and actually have a vote online? What are the benefits to this? the drawbacks? Are there other options? Mail-in ballots??!!
My opinion- make sure people know what is being discussed at a meeting so if the votes are important enough to them, they can make it to the meeting, or if that's not possible, they have time to lobby folks to vote the "right" way!
Your opinion(s)?
Jeff
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hey Jeff, don't worry...the Lents Grocery is the working name! Remember? We talked about picking a store/co-op name later when we have more folks involved. We chose the Lents Grocery just so we could get something going that would help us with outreach... a place to send people to learn about our project.
We will need to have a very long detailed discussion about voting process too. It's going to be a big part of drafting the bylaws.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Oh dear God. Bylaws!!
I've been through this process before. And it is not a walk in the park. Bylaws themselves take a lot of decision making and discussion- any ideas of where to start? My first thought would be look at bylaws from the coop we can find that is doing something very similar to what we want to do- and edit them to fit our own needs. In any case, it would seem that some very basic decision-making rules would almost need to precede the creation of bylaws since creating the bylaws will take some much decision making.
Thoughts?
Jeff
Posted 1 year ago # -
Yes indeed. But, I think we need more people involved before we are ready to "vote" on how we "vote" to write the bylaws about how we vote. eeesh...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hey all. I think that this misunderstanding may end up giving the group more freedom to move forward. I know that Joan's been conflicted about her inability to make it to meetings in the evenings, and I for one have been reluctant to move forward for wanting her there. It seems like she's been a key leader and it just doesn't work to have key leaders missing. She has been such a driving force, and yet she isn't able to meet with the group, so maybe her letting go of her role is what the group needs to move ahead. I'm so glad that she's still able to be supportive of the project, in spite of her strong feelings about the way we're choosing to do things (or her misunderstandings about such, considering she isn't there to gain understanding).
As for Damian's thought about voting, I agree that we haven't set up a voting structure yet--do we vote by majority or go with consensus? I think both are options, but what is most important to me is that folks be present in the same room and not be trying to do a neighborhood project wiki style, as if we all lived in different parts of the world--we all live in Lents! Lets make time to meet and understand each other. This is part of the beauty of a project like this.
I think that someone needs to post to civicgrocery that we are discussing things here and that we're moving on. There are bound to be others who didn't see the link to this site, like me.
The name Lentsgrocery.com? Love it. Yes, it probably will stick, but for God's sake lets pick a name so that we can start getting the name into the heads of the people who want to hear about this! I could care less if it's Springwater, or Civic or Lents or Moondoggie--we should be able to pick a name at this stage, no? Its one thing we CAN do. If we get hung up on something this simple, we'll be in real trouble when actual complexity arises... This validates Damien's point that we need a voting structure--we don't have a name because we don't have a way to vote that decides things conclusively. Beyond that, I'd say if you care about voting on an agenda item, don't miss the meeting. I think that's a good assumption to make....
Posted 1 year ago # -
Maybe we should have the Moondoggie co-op...then our bylaws would have to be crafted to fit on only one sheet of braille music paper! That would be short but sweet. (okay just kidding)
I agree about setting up a voting structure, it will be key to letting us move ahead with the bylaws. If we don't, I can foresee things getting muddled down at the meetings. I also think it will help people reach a better understanding about when it is okay to just decide, rather than talk issues into the ground.
Also, are we going to continue with the rotating facilitation? Adrienne was going to be the facilitator at the last meeting, but she didn't make it (and won't be attending anymore). I'm sorry I wasn't top form at the last meeting, I wasn't expecting to have to facilitate. Honestly, I don't want to facilitate any more meetings other than occasionally because I don't want to be seen as a figurehead in this project. I think the rotation allows more people to feel ownership, and no one person gets blamed for group decisions.
I have some really useful "how-to" sheets for meeting facilitation, that include how to bring discussion to an end to call a question, how to draw quiet people out to make sure they're heard, and how to deal with specific communication styles that tend to effect meetings in a negative way. I'll have to pull out the old binder and make copies.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't think our online forums are or should be a decision-making tool. The forum allows participants to come to the table already knowing some of the issues so less precious time is used to get to the same point. It's a real tool that makes real work more efficient. I feel lucky to have it available to me, because I spend so much time working downtown and riding the bus to and from -- I can have my place saved in the conversation and come back when I have a moment or a relevent thought. I don't thrive in a public meeting. Other people do. This gives me
A way to lob my thoughts into the pot. I also believe that the actual meeting is where real stuff has to happen. I believe that a co-op functions as a kind of utilitarian machine that I can trust when I'm not there to act in good faith for the greatest good for all holding any kind of interest in the project. Those minutes need to be posted more quickly though, evidently. Steve out.Posted 1 year ago # -
Good points. The online forum does allow opportunities for people who can't make meetings to take part in the conversations. Glad you're here Steve!
Posted 1 year ago # -
The Viking of sixth avenue co-op?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Jeff,
Yeah -- if I'm heard here, I trust that even in a democratic mob-rule situation that some consensus-minded person will consider what they saw here and act, informed. I trust my co-op because it works for me, too.Posted 1 year ago # -
I want to hear from everyone too and I value everyone's input. On the other hand, I want to get stuff done. I've been interested/involved in this discussion for almost two months and it seems that in all that time all we've done is come up with a temporary name and even that has caused a bit of disagreement. (If this keeps up, maybe we should call ourselves the "People's Front of Judea" or is it the "Judean People's Front"?)
I think we need one well advertised meeting scheduled with plenty of time in advance where we settle on a vision and set real goals with deadlines. I think the next "all hands" meeting was scheduled for the 26th of March. We have three weeks to draw up an agenda--but we should get a draft out within the next week. People that absolutely cannot attend the meeting can post their opinions to the forum. After the meeting, a post of the decisions made can be posted for one final airing, after which those decisions that receive overwhelming support will be kept and the others will be revisited.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Maybe we should do a check in and see where everyone is at and where they think they'll be in the projects for the subcommittees at the next meeting...then draw up an agenda?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Splitters! If there's anything we hate more its the People's front of Judea.
Pra Bob. (hyuh!)Posted 1 year ago #
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